22-10-16
Once again i am talking about my Test Topic that's a part of my Test Project and i want to see some links in the reply
Now hopefully without the uncaught exceptions for Test Topic
Now I am going to link a message into a specific section in my Test Topic#New Section and also see if we propagate that through to the wikilinks in Test Project
Now I am going to link a message into a specific section in my Test Topic#New Section and also see if we propagate that through to the wikilinks in Test Project
i'll leave the bot running for a lil bit but yeah it's just running on my laptop for now, will move it over to the linode running the wiki when i go to switch the url. made a page to document the WikiBot#Status Updates
22-10-16
Once again i am talking about my Test Topic that's a part of my Test Project and i want to see some links in the reply
22-10-31
I would suggest turning Discord#Notifications off for this channel. on mobile click the person looking icon in the top right and then the notification options are near the top. on desktop there should be a bell-looking icon along the top row of icons
22-11-01
22-11-02
Excuse me let me be a good role model on continuous archiving. One of the reasons I am excited about academics adopting Mastodon is because ActivityPub is built on Linked Data, which i think inspires the possibility for fundamentally new modes of scholarly communication. I have written about this in the past (10.48550/arXiv.2209.07493, but will do my best to decenter my own ideas except for when I am using them as a demonstration for others as part of a demonstration of using the technology developed for the workshop
omg lmao WikiBot#TODO Don't make a separate page using semantic wikilinks lol
Then i just made a page to link to the pages. There's not really a well defined way to do meta-categorization like that in-medium as far as I'm aware, but am happy to receive WikiBot#Feature Requests about it
Konrad, are you familiar with Chemical Markup Language (CML)? I stumbled across it on Twitter a few weeks ago via discussions about open publishing, and was surprised at the longevity of the project. I don’t love XML, but it seems to have gained some traction in its day, though I am not sure how active it is these days. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Markup_Language
22-11-03
ah, that is both informative and sad to hear. i think ahead of its time is a reasonable diagnosis.
ScholOnto I think was also ahead of its time: had a working prototype integration into a Word processor for directly authoring discourse-graph like things while drafting a manuscript (described here: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/int.20188)
this is almost exactly the idea with the WikiBot that pushes to a Semantic Wiki, and good to have a name in Gradual Enrichment. looking forward to digging though the references and finishing that piece^ tomorrow. (and finishing the n-back linking syntax so I can just directly include the piece in the annotation that is this message). thanks for sharing 🙂
Project Ideas#Linked Data Publishing On Activitypub
ooh I'm very interested in this. so are you thinking a Twitter#Bridge -> ActivityPub#Bridge where one could use markup within the twitter post to declare Linked Data#Markup Syntax and then post to AP? I have thought about this kind of thing before, like using a bot command syntax to declare prefixes by doing something like ``` @ bot prefix foaf: https:// (ontology URL) ``` or ``` @ bot alias term: foaf.LongerNameForTerm ``` so that one could do maybe a semantic wikilink like `[ [term::value] ]` either within the tweet or as a reply to it (so the tweet itself doesn't become cluttered/it can become organized post -hoc?).
I've also thought about a bridge (I called Threadodo ) that implements that kind of command syntax to be able to directly archive threads to Zenodo along with structured information about the author, but this seems more interesting.
I can help try and clear some of the groundwork out of the way to make it easier for you and other interested participants to experiment. I have asked around fedi a bunch for a very minimal AP server implementation, and I could try and find one (or we could try and prototype one) if you want to experiment with that :), and I can also document and show you a tweepy-based bot that has an extensible command/parsing system too
hello Matthew! very curious about this. As someone not familiar with materials science, I'm curious if you could say more about what OPTIMADE does in this case? Is the idea that the zenodo plugin parses some paper, and then sends it to other listening clients that the parsed data comes from the paper? is it a vocabulary, or communication protocol, or both? and what kind of information would it be parsing/do materials scientists want to be able to analyze in an automated way? sorry if I am being dense, just curious because I've always admired materials but have had very little exposure.
22-11-04
in the spirit of cultivating our garden: Reading List https://hapgood.us/2015/10/17/the-garden-and-the-stream-a-technopastoral/amp/
Nice idea, that Wikibot! Do I understand correctly that it grabs all messages that contain a page name in double brackets, and adds them to the Wiki page with that name? (this message being as much a test as a question of course)
the idea is exactly to merge the Garden and Stream we have here, or as olde wiki culture called it, DocumentMode and ThreadMode in a process of Gradual Enrichment http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/DocumentMode http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/ThreadMode
22-11-05
Wiki#Organization As we get towards proposing projects and organizing ideas, I've added a set of pages for the different concepts that y'all indicated either here or in your applications: https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Concepts
Each page should give a list of participants that have a `Interested In` property on their participant page (or you can declare interest on the page using the template (see example at https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Template:Concept ) as another way of finding people with similar interests. Feel free to add additional interests from your own page and add new pages by using the `
| Discord Messages | |
|---|---|
| Interested Participants | |
` template on any new page. The pages are all stubs at the moment, but I have made links between related concepts/subconcepts/etc. These will also help us catch any wikilinks made from within the discord 🙂
22-11-07
Hello Pooja and welcome 🙂 I certainly share your concerns here, and would love to read any writing or work you've done on the topic! I'm curious if you had any initial inklings of Discovery systems that go beyond the Search#Black Box Model ? I have my own ideas but as you say, everyone has a unique standpoint and experience that structures their ideas so I would love to hear yours!
For everyone that is embarking on a project, how about setting up a page under Projects where we can start organizing people that are interested in them, and setting up any prerequisite infra/tools so we don't have to be struggling with stuff like provisioning servers and getting permissions setup during our limited time this weekend 🙂
22-11-08
To add to the Reading List#Linked Data on Linked Data, Standards, and Collaboration: a piece from one of the authors of ActivityPub on the merger of the distributed messaging and linked data communities that I think puts into context what a massive achievement AP was http://dustycloud.org/blog/on-standards-divisions-collaboration/
22-11-09
Haven't finished n-back thread capture yet but this rocks and let's keep track of it on the wiki. Scroll up in this thread for SEPIO + ActivityStreams/ActivityPub + JSON-LD. On a train now and having to work on some other stuff but this is making me unreasonably excited to check out later
22-11-10
Reminder as the conversations start thickening (which has been great to read, looking forward to jumping in more later when I have a few minutes) and thus become a bit harder to keep track of that you should feel free to make liberal use of Wikilinks in your posts to archive them in the wiki and make them more discoverable by people outside of your table/project. (For example this message will appear here https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Wikilinks ). This would be especially useful because it looks like some folks are interested in doing some <#1038988750677606432> on the wiki!
I am about to go to bed but personally I favor the model of the federated wiki, that the same "term" or page title in the case of the wiki has many possible realizations, and what's useful is their multiplicity. I think everything2 was an early model of this, but basically it cuts to the core of the history of early wikis, to the initial fork of ward's wiki into meatball. the singularity of meaning as implied by Wikipedia is imo an artifact of wikis having been adopted by encyclopedists, with all the diderot-like enlightenment-era philosophy that entails. this seems exceptionally apt today and yesterday given Aaron Swartz telling of that history , particularly his "Who Writes Wikipedia?" Everyone can contribute in a linked context, and that's what the synthesis of wikilike thinking, linked data, and distributed messaging gives us :). I write about this idea more completely here: https://jon-e.net/infrastructure/#the-wiki-way after my take on the critical/ethical need for forking in information systems as given by the case study of NIH's biomedical translator (link to most relevant part in the middle of the argument, the justification and motivation precedes it): https://jon-e.net/infrastructure/#problematizing-the-need-for-a-system-intended-to-link-all-or-eve
the idea DiscourseGraphs is rooted in a bunch of models like SEPIO (h/t <@602622661125996545>) and ScholOnto that have been around for various amounts of time, though not yet with (to my knowledge) serious widespread adoption.
we think the problem now is user-friendly tools and workfows that can create discourse graph structures, and have seen some exciting progress across a bunch of new user-facing "personal wikis". but bridging from personal to communal is still a challenge, partially bc of tooling.
this is why i'm excited about the Discourse Modeling idea, which i sort of understand as a way to try to instantiate something like Discourse Graphs into a wiki (bc wikis have a lot more in-built affordances for collaboration, such as edit histories, talk pages, etc.), which may hopefully lead to a lower barrier to entry for collaborative discourse graphing.
a high hope is that we can develop a process that is easy enough to understand and implement that can then be applied to discourse graphing the IPCC or similarly large body of research on a focused, contentious, interdisciplinary topic.
other examples include: - effects of masks on community transmission (can't do decisive RCTs, need to synthesize) - effects of social media on political (dys)function: (existing crowdsourced lit review here, in traditional narrative form: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vVAtMCQnz8WVxtSNQev_e1cGmY9rnY96ecYuAj6C548/edit#)
I don't know of any either! The closest I know of is ward's Fedwiki: but i plan on making one (probably more related to <#1038983225348993184> than this channel, which i am trying hard not to derail lol)
Looking forward to your work in this space! I do know about Fedwiki but only as a spectator. I tried to convince a few colleagues to set up a network of Fedwikis in our research domain, but nobody was keen on becoming a sysadmin to run their own Wiki instance.
yes anagora does have a rough kind of federation! it's a very very permissive model which I love, markdown and plaintext with wikilinks, a lot of the wikis that it federates with are just git repositories of .md files 🙂
Maybe Synthesis Infrastructures 2022 or something? but we haven't made one yet no lol
another group ( <#1038988750677606432> ) will i believe be analyzing the semantic information on the wiki ( https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Main_Page ), and you can archive the text of any message onto a wiki page by using Wikilinks: ( so eg. this message will go to https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Wikilinks )
in human-computer interaction we have a similar problem of trying to think about and synthesize across many genres of contributions/research. one map (adapted for information studies) breaks things out into "empirical" contributions (these most often follow the standard intro/methods/results/discussion format), "conceptual" contributions (which are often more amorphous theory papers), and "constructive" contributions (making a new system/method)
from here: HCI Research as Problem-Solving
22-11-11
That said, the more abstract idea of defining a data model plus execution semantics that any programming language can plug into looks very promising. That aspect of WikiLambda was in fact one of my inspirations for developing Digital Scientific Notations.
I'll try to turn this thread into Project Ideas#Federated knowledge synthesis: identify protocols, data models, tools, practices, etc. that can support the process of synthesizing and formalizing scientific knowledge, then build on these ingredients. One dimension is going from narratives via discourse graphs to knowledge graphs. Another dimension is going from conceptual ideas to formal systems.
we're in the process of consolidating the ideas into group pages, so far the group pages are incomplete, but tomorrow (I'm on Pacific time, US) will work on that and take whatever ya write and move it over there 🙂 <@322545403876868096> got this started here: https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Workshop_Working_Groups and then we'll split those up into pages in
I think of all of these tools as "personal hypertext notebooks" - basically taking what is possible in wikis (organizing by means of linking, hypertext) and lowering the barrier to entry (no need to spin up a server, can just download an app and go).
The common thread across these notebooks then is allowing for organizing and exploring by means of bidirectional hyperlinks between "notes": - In Obsidian each linkable note is a markdown file and can be as short or long as you like - in Logseq/Roam and other outliner-style notebooks, you can link "pages", and also individual bullets in the outlines on each page.
In this way, the core functionality of these tools is similar to a wiki, but they do leave out a lot of the collaborative functionality that makes wikis work well (granular versioning and edit histories, talk pages, etc.). So for folks like <@305044217393053697> who are comfortable with wikis already, they add marginal value IMO.
Their technical predecessors in the "personal (vs. collaborative) wiki" space include TiddlyWiki and emacs org-mode (and inherit their technical extensibility: many users create their own extensions of the notebooks' functionality. an example is the Roam Discourse Graph extension that <@824740026575355906> is using).
These tools also tend to trace their idea lineage back to vannevar bush's Memex and ted nelson's Xanadu.
These tools are still not entirely mainstream compared to tools like Notion, which is related to your experience trying to learn more about the tools - so they tend to have a steep learning curve!
IMO the best way to get a feel for what they are is to see some examples/videos.
I like this video for an overview of Logseq: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtRozP8hfEY&t=6s
I describe Roam and the Roam Discourse Graph extension in this portion of a talk I recently gave: https://youtu.be/jH-QF7rVSeo?t=1417
i agree it's not universal! my feeling is that Claim: a statement (claim or evidence) might be the more universal element: - empirical work also consists of statements about the world (this is less controversial) - design/technological innovation rests in part on claims about a) what is needed in the world, what is hard to do, constraints, and b) what is needed to succeed: examples here: https://deepscienceventures.com/content/the-outcomes-graph-2 (h/t <@559775193242009610>) - theories often consist of systems of core claims (e.g., in models like what <@824740026575355906> and <@734802666441408532> are working with, where we can think of the claims as subgraphs of the overall knowledge graph)
see, e.g., Evidence from this review of models of scientific knowledge https://publish.obsidian.md/joelchan-notes/discourse-graph/evidence/EVD+-+Four+positivist+epistemological+models+from+philosophy+of+science%2C+including+Popper%2C+emphasiz...+statements+as+a+core+component+of+scientific+knowledge+-+%40harsDesigningScientificKnowledge2001
and Evidence convergence/contrasts across users of the Roam Discourse Graph extension in terms of building blocks: common thread across all was Evidence
super glad to hear that the endpoint worked btw, i've never used SPARQL and am more used to just making my own data models that generate API queries & parse etc. so I would love to see what you've been doing and how you've been using it - I'll make a SPARQL page linked off the wiki page that gives the URL and maybe we can embed sample queries and etc. there