Synthesis Infrastructures - User contributions [en]

Discourse Modeling

2022-11-13T17:31:06Z

Silvianetobessa: Added Sam Klein to the list of participants

{{Group
|Decription=Implement Discourse Graph schema in Semantic MediaWiki. Query Discourse Graph contents through SMW sparql endpoint. Visualize and publish Discourse Graph contents.
|Topics=Discourse Graphs, SPARQL
|Projects=Federated knowledge synthesis, Making Discourse Graphs Indexable & Discoverable
|Discord Channel Name=#discourse-modeling
|Discord Channel URL=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1038988750677606432
|Facilitator=Karola Kirsanow
|Members=Karola Kirsanow, Konrad Hinsen, Kyle MacLaury, Peter Murray-Rust, Sam Klein
|Description=Implement Discourse Graph schema in Semantic MediaWiki. Query Discourse Graph contents through SMW sparql endpoint. Visualize and publish Discourse Graph contents.
}}
== What are we discussing? ==

It could be really valuable to try to prototype a "computable" synthesis of the knowledge in this workshop here in the wiki. One test of the "computability" would be to make it visualizable.

Could have applications to the semantic climate setting that [[Peter Murray-Rust]] is working on.

[[File:Results graph.png|thumb|the results graph - Matt Akamatsu's DG dialect for experimental science]]

== Discourse Graphs ==
[[File:Discourse Graph.png|thumb|Discourse Graph (from Joel Chan)]]
We're focusing on implementing [https://oasis-lab.gitbook.io/roamresearch-discourse-graph-extension/ the Discourse Graph Datamodel] in a wiki to see if we can make further progress on enabling and supporting synthesis, discovery, and dissemination by building upon models that have already demonstrated success.<blockquote>From our chat yesterday: I'd like to propose adding <code>Axiom</code>s and adding relationships to <code>Source</code>s. Is there a way to do this on the oasis-lab spec?</blockquote>[[File:The discourse graph quadruplet.png|thumb|The discourse graph quadruplet]]

== Now you're playing with templates ==
* <tt>{{</tt><tt> [[:template:source|Source]]}} </tt> template : URL, publisher, publisher-url, date, author, title

{{source
| url = https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Discourse_Modeling
| publisher = Synthesis Infrastructures wiki
| publisher-url = https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/index.php?title=Discourse_Modeling
| date = 2022-11-12
| author = Sj
| title = Discourse modeling templates}}

* Claim :
* Axiom (?) :

[[:Category:Discourse graph templates|Discourse Graph templates]]

== Potential Actions ==
* Implement the Discourse Graph schema within the workshop's Semantic MediaWiki instance
** [[Making Discourse Graphs Indexable & Discoverable]] is a sub-project relevant to this group
* [[Incorporate models/algorithms into Semantic MediaWiki]]
* [[Access discourse and knowledge representations in the SMW instance]]
* Compute with the returned data
** potentially using models/algorithms from the wiki
* Visualize the results of the computation
* Publish the visualizations back to the SMW instance
* Assess suitability of Discourse Graphs for federation ([[Federated knowledge synthesis|Federated Knowledge Synthesis]])

=== Modules ===
Technical aspects of the project
* [[Semantic MediaWiki]]
** Front End
*** Embed CloudObjects from Wolfram Cloud
*** User chooses model and specifies input parameters
*** User applies model to input parameters
**** Call API that executes
** rdf database
*** [[SPARQL]] endpoint
* Wolfram Cloud
** Use [https://reference.wolfram.com/language/GraphStore/ref/SPARQLExecute.html SPARQLExecute] to call the SPARQL endpoint
** Apply Model to query results
** Publish visualizations as CloudObjects
** Publish API that executes model/algorithm

== Workshop Goals ==

# Implement the Discourse Graph schema within the workshop's Semantic MediaWiki instance
## create templates for nodes
## understand how to type relationships
## prototype naming conventions
# Create a few example Discourse Graphs, drawing on content and conversations generated during the workshop
# Make the Discourse Graphs contained on the wiki visualizable and queryable through the Semantic Mediawiki SPARQL endpoint, as described above
# Document our process and create a guide to making wiki-supported Discourse Graphs

== Progress as of Day 1 ==

* We aligned on a workplan that largely harmonizes with the goals formulated before the workshop and integrates as many objectives from [[Making Discourse Graphs Indexable & Discoverable]] and [[Federated knowledge synthesis]] as feasible.
** We want to bootstrap a simple entrypoint into Discourse Graph construction, complete with example graphs, from a more familiar wiki environment.
** We hope to design a system that is compatible with later efforts at DG federation.
** We discussed the approaches to naming and conflict resolution employed by [https://anagora.org/agora an agora] and [https://everything2.com/?node=patriotism everything2].
* We decided to focus first on the problems of ''naming'' and ''schemas''; beginning with designing templates for '''nodes''' and a wiki-friendly implementation of '''relations'''.
** We discussed the relative advantages and constraints of MW v SMW.
** We aligned on the criticality of naming to enable effective querying
** We decided that we should also develop names for frequent queries.
* We sketched a system for capturing and transforming conversations on this wiki into graphs, putting the "discourse" back into "Discourse Graphs"
** We made a first pass at designing templates for '''sources''', '''evidence''', '''claims''', and '''questions'''
** We discussed for the page relations enabled by SMW could be used to create DG edges.
* We annotated this page's [[Talk:Discourse Modeling|Discussion]] using simple DG syntax to experiment with transforming a "live" conversation into a DG

== Progress as of Day 2 ==

== Observations & Open Problems ==

* We immediately realized that we had seen very few Discourse Graphs "in the wild": the model makes intuitive sense in single player and small-group mode in Roam & Obsidian, but how gracefully will it scale to massively multiplayer synthesis?
** There are at least two possible models here: public-first writing in online mode (wiki, Roam) and local-first writing +push, probably via git. UX and conflict resolution will differ in these models.
* How to design with a federated future in mind?
** What does it mean for distinct graphs to share nodes? to "live" in adjacent namespaces?
* The challenge of using a wiki like git: simultaneous editing seems more cumbersome
* If creating templates is a large part of the work, more powerful text editing & transformation capabilities (e.g. sed, pandoc) seem in order
* Need to create a consistent way of sharing and editing templates - how do template changes propagate in a future federated system?
* Will graph visualization scale in a useful manner? How will traversal work?
* The relationship between naming and clustering: how do we name groups of related hypotheses? A family of experiments?
* Questions regarding feasible & appropriate levels of automation<br />

== Relevant Projects and Ideas ==

* [https://anagora.org/agora Agora]
* [https://everything2.com/ everything2]
* [https://cosma.graphlab.fr/en/ Cosma]
* Obsidian
* Roam
* Logseq
* [https://zettlr.com/ Zettlr]
* [https://tana.inc/ Tana]
* Kumu
* [https://discoursegraph.com The Discourse Graph Starter pack]
* [https://gtoolkit.com/components/lepiter/ Lepiter]
* [https://github.com/Massive-Wiki/massive-wiki Massive Wiki]

==Example Discourse==
[[Why do we expect increased concentrations of atmospheric carbon dioxide to change the climate?]]

==Example Discourse Graphs==
* [https://publish.obsidian.md/joelchan-notes/README Joel Chan's working notes]
* [https://civicdb.org/assertions/home CIViC] (Clinical Interpretation of Variance in Cancer]

==Tools==

[[Download SMW rdf data]]

[[Import SMW .jsonld as RDFStore in Wolfram Language]]

[[Example SPARQL queries in Wolfram Language]]

[[Execute SPARQL query against RDFStore]]
== Discord ==

{{Message
|Author=joelchan86
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/322545403876868096/6dd171845a7a4e30603d98ae510c77b8.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 15:55:39
|Channel=discourse graphs
|Text=we think the problem now is user-friendly tools and workfows that can create discourse graph structures, and have seen some exciting progress across a bunch of new user-facing "personal wikis". but bridging from personal to communal is still a challenge, partially bc of tooling.

this is why i'm excited about the [[Discourse Modeling]] idea, which i sort of understand as a way to try to instantiate something like [[Discourse Graphs]] into a wiki (bc wikis have a lot more in-built affordances for collaboration, such as edit histories, talk pages, etc.), which may hopefully lead to a lower barrier to entry for collaborative discourse graphing.

a high hope is that we can develop a process that is easy enough to understand and implement that can then be applied to discourse graphing the IPCC or similarly large body of research on a focused, contentious, interdisciplinary topic.

other examples include:
- effects of masks on community transmission (can't do decisive RCTs, need to synthesize)
- effects of social media on political (dys)function: (existing crowdsourced lit review here, in traditional narrative form: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vVAtMCQnz8WVxtSNQev_e1cGmY9rnY96ecYuAj6C548/edit#)
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040214388554084372/1040293673851691059
}}

Social Systems

2022-11-13T16:50:01Z

Silvianetobessa:

{{Group
|Decription=How to design/foster social structures / incentives / programs for fostering synthesis-friendly work, such as writing living literature reviews, adding metadata to experiments, etc.?
|Topics=Incentive Systems
|Discord Channel Name=#social-systems
|Discord Channel URL=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040386737836412928
|Facilitator=Sílvia Bessa
|Members=Angelina Lesnikova, Martin Karlsson, Matt Clancy, Nouran Soliman, Raphael Walker, Sílvia Bessa, Valerii Kremnev, Jay Patel
|Buddies=Peer Review
}}
== What ==

How to design/foster social structures / incentives / programs for fostering synthesis-friendly work, such as writing living literature reviews, adding metadata to experiments, etc.

== Async: Potential Next Steps ==
[[Matt Clancy]]
* [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FFdCnLEEeIzx91IMA7zg_K7rQztI4JtqTt7cKbu6YT0/edit?usp=sharing Atlas Academia : A proposal (CSCW version)]
* [https://newthingsunderthesun.com/, https://newthingsunderthesun.com/,]

[[Martin Karlsson]]<blockquote>On "''organize thought and writing on a central theme/problem to facilitate future work''" track, if there is interest, I would be keen to bring together those that would like to map out:

# The structural options for rewarding contribution.
# Learnings from past and ongoing attempts (what truly motivates sustainable participation).
# New funding sources that could sustain those reward mechanisms.

Then map to the enabling effects of the tooling and model initiatives occurring across the workshop. One goal would be to connect the thread from these new funding sources and methods to the attribution and reward mechanisms offered by discourse graph and synthesis tooling.</blockquote><blockquote>On a similar wavelength to Karola's note, this aligns with projects we are supporting in Longevity and Consciousness research, which will aim to test new **incentive mechanisms for contributing and maintaining living lit reviews in both domains**. I'd love to dive deeper and share learnings on this. How to most effectively deploy the grants raised so far is very top of mind! (edited)</blockquote>

[[Karola Kirsanow]]<blockquote>Just chiming in to add that developing incentive mechanisms for contributions to understanding the status of the knowledge frontier is something my team at Protocol Labs is interested in as well, both in the context of building & maintaining syntheses and discovering needed "requests for experiments", as @mattakamatsu might put it</blockquote>[[Joel Chan]]<blockquote>, i think it would be really neat to spec out different funding / incentive models for sustaining the work of synthesis (i'm bullish on getting a good amount done by integrating into normal workflows, but there's also a good amount of really valuable editorial/curatorial/synthesis work that you're doing that we want to see more of!)</blockquote>

=== Raw ideas: ===
🤔 what are the new incentives that we would like to see adopted? and what are the end goals of these incentives?

🤔 can we incentivize people to create a collective knowledge graph? who curates? how do we track value attribution?

🤔 spec out different funding/incentive models for sustaining the work of synthesis

🤔 developing incentive mechanisms for contributions to understanding the status of the knowledge frontier

🤔 incentive mechanisms for contributing and maintaining living lit reviews in both domains

== Day 1: Goal for the workshop ==
'''Expected outcome'''

<code>'''Resources''', such as a system map/synthesis of the problem space, synthesis/directory of tools, essential reading list, case study library, or shared synthesis benchmark dataset</code>

T'''he best tools in the world mean nothing if no one adopts them'''. Let’s merge together small scale testing, with rigorous validation.

We want to create a '''Resource''' that the tool builders across the group can glance at to not lose sight of the critical point of adoption. With practical examples of how these mechanisms are designed, iterated upon, and how they can be tested and communicated to academia.
* Learnings from past and ongoing attempts (what truly motivates sustainable participation).
* "''A tool builder should check their assumptions agains this checklist before ...''"
* validate assumptions for the system that should work on a bigger scale / models to test the incentives
* Example:
** Reputation & interactions in online space: how can we build better tools to help users navigate these spaces without being afraid of their reputation
*Describe the set of incentive/mechanism patterns that tool-builders might want to be aware of or design for/into?
=== Identified Open Problems ===
# Acceptance and onboarding of scientists, even if we have a model that works in a small setting
# Value attribution:
#* How do you distribute rewards?
#* Opportunity side: new tools looking at ways to provide input to that distribution mechanism
#* How do we connect the two sides?
# How do we test the behavior of a model as it scales?
#* How do we predict the inventive structures or perverse behavior that will arise as it’s adopted for a large number of players?
# Incentive mechanisms for contributing and maintaining a collective knowledge graph
== Day 2: Outcome - Patterns and ID cards for new incentives mechanism design and adoption ==

<code>ToDo: add summary /context for converging on Patterns and Incentive Mechanism Cards</code>

❓[[Question]] What are the patterns for designing a new incentive mechanism system, from inception to adoption by academia?

❓[[Question]] How do we know if a new incentive mechanism or tool is ready for academia?

❓[[Question]] What drives the acceptance and onboarding of scientists?

=== '''💡''' [[Claim]] Patterns ===
''Patterns come from our reflective observations about our hands-on interactions to solve problems in the world. One simple definition is that a pattern is a repeatably applicable solution to a problem that arises in a specific context. What’s the pattern form?''

See the example of the [http://scrumbook.org/ Scrum Patterns] book that used "A pattern language: Towns, buildings, construction." book as reference

* Common building blocks of mechanism design:
** Problem
** Frequent approaches or solution
** How to test / quantify?

Any people that designs new mechanisms

<code>ToDo: summarise the idea better</code>

=== '''💡''' [[Claim]] '''ID Cards for new incentive mechanisms''' ===
''Serve to disclose information about a new mechanism design. What would be the sections of a model card for a new incentive mechanism? Who proposed it, assumptions made, type of incentivized behavior, riks and perverse behavior, evaluation, theoretical support…''

<code>ToDo: copy the 1st draft of Mechanism Cards from:</code> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g1V4WKKmIaEajC9AW9fdbqOnTd7joaasc-AjFDYNC5o/edit#heading=h.pjvcgnypdp3a

=== '''💡''' [[Claim]] '''Wiki of incentive mechanisms:''' ===

* Create an “incentive mechanism card”, a structure on the wiki

* imagine we have a wiki of all incentives ever designed, what would be the “mandatory” sections?
* Convert one of the examples in the chat to that structure

Both '''Patterns''' and '''Incentive Mechanism Cards''' can be converted to wiki structures. These resources are complementary in the sense that Patterns can be small cards that we consult when designing a new mechanism, while ID cards would be unique identifiers of new mechanisms (they can

=== Future Directions: ===

* Create a Wiki ''Structure for Incentive Mechanism Card''
* Create and fill wiki pages for some examples of Incentive Mechanisms
* Idea: invite designers to create ''Patterns for Mechanism Design''

== Examples of Incentive Mechanisms ==
<code>ToDo: copy from messages on Discord in response to</code> https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1041005559954022471/1041061650977009704

<nowiki>#</nowiki>incentive-mechanisms under #general channel
== Bibliography & Resources ==

* Other examples of pattern libraries: https://decentpatterns.xyz/library/

===== Incentive Mechanisms =====

* https://rescognito.com/
* https://credit.niso.org/
* https://anagora.org
* [https://sourcecred.io/ SourceCred]
* Golden - [https://docs.golden.xyz/protocol/how-to-get-involved/reward-function-development Reward function development]
* [https://protocol.ai/blog/hypercert-new-primitive/ HyperCerts]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1soPQ31ZHkQ Impact Evaluators]

===== Papers =====

* [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7046208/ The views, perspectives, and experiences of academic researchers with data sharing and reuse: A meta-synthesis] [Paper]
* [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8808319/ Incentivising research data sharing: a scoping review] [Paper]
* [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.04.25.489391v1.full.pdf Community review: a robust and scalable selection system for resource allocation within open science and innovation communities] by Just One Giant Lab [Paper]
* [https://scienceplusplus.org/metascience/ An Engine of Improvement for the Social Processes of Science] [Paper] by Nielsen and Qiu

Social Systems

2022-11-13T16:48:35Z

Silvianetobessa:

{{Group
|Decription=How to design/foster social structures / incentives / programs for fostering synthesis-friendly work, such as writing living literature reviews, adding metadata to experiments, etc.?
|Topics=Incentive Systems
|Discord Channel Name=#social-systems
|Discord Channel URL=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040386737836412928
|Facilitator=Sílvia Bessa
|Members=Angelina Lesnikova, Martin Karlsson, Matt Clancy, Raphael Walker, Sílvia Bessa, Valerii Kremnev, Nouran Soliman
|Buddies=Peer Review
}}
== What ==

How to design/foster social structures / incentives / programs for fostering synthesis-friendly work, such as writing living literature reviews, adding metadata to experiments, etc.

== Async: Potential Next Steps ==
[[Matt Clancy]]
* [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FFdCnLEEeIzx91IMA7zg_K7rQztI4JtqTt7cKbu6YT0/edit?usp=sharing Atlas Academia : A proposal (CSCW version)]
* [https://newthingsunderthesun.com/, https://newthingsunderthesun.com/,]

[[Martin Karlsson]]<blockquote>On "''organize thought and writing on a central theme/problem to facilitate future work''" track, if there is interest, I would be keen to bring together those that would like to map out:

# The structural options for rewarding contribution.
# Learnings from past and ongoing attempts (what truly motivates sustainable participation).
# New funding sources that could sustain those reward mechanisms.

Then map to the enabling effects of the tooling and model initiatives occurring across the workshop. One goal would be to connect the thread from these new funding sources and methods to the attribution and reward mechanisms offered by discourse graph and synthesis tooling.</blockquote><blockquote>On a similar wavelength to Karola's note, this aligns with projects we are supporting in Longevity and Consciousness research, which will aim to test new **incentive mechanisms for contributing and maintaining living lit reviews in both domains**. I'd love to dive deeper and share learnings on this. How to most effectively deploy the grants raised so far is very top of mind! (edited)</blockquote>

[[Karola Kirsanow]]<blockquote>Just chiming in to add that developing incentive mechanisms for contributions to understanding the status of the knowledge frontier is something my team at Protocol Labs is interested in as well, both in the context of building & maintaining syntheses and discovering needed "requests for experiments", as @mattakamatsu might put it</blockquote>[[Joel Chan]]<blockquote>, i think it would be really neat to spec out different funding / incentive models for sustaining the work of synthesis (i'm bullish on getting a good amount done by integrating into normal workflows, but there's also a good amount of really valuable editorial/curatorial/synthesis work that you're doing that we want to see more of!)</blockquote>

=== Raw ideas: ===
🤔 what are the new incentives that we would like to see adopted? and what are the end goals of these incentives?

🤔 can we incentivize people to create a collective knowledge graph? who curates? how do we track value attribution?

🤔 spec out different funding/incentive models for sustaining the work of synthesis

🤔 developing incentive mechanisms for contributions to understanding the status of the knowledge frontier

🤔 incentive mechanisms for contributing and maintaining living lit reviews in both domains

== Day 1: Goal for the workshop ==
'''Expected outcome'''

<code>'''Resources''', such as a system map/synthesis of the problem space, synthesis/directory of tools, essential reading list, case study library, or shared synthesis benchmark dataset</code>

T'''he best tools in the world mean nothing if no one adopts them'''. Let’s merge together small scale testing, with rigorous validation.

We want to create a '''Resource''' that the tool builders across the group can glance at to not lose sight of the critical point of adoption. With practical examples of how these mechanisms are designed, iterated upon, and how they can be tested and communicated to academia.
* Learnings from past and ongoing attempts (what truly motivates sustainable participation).
* "''A tool builder should check their assumptions agains this checklist before ...''"
* validate assumptions for the system that should work on a bigger scale / models to test the incentives
* Example:
** Reputation & interactions in online space: how can we build better tools to help users navigate these spaces without being afraid of their reputation
*Describe the set of incentive/mechanism patterns that tool-builders might want to be aware of or design for/into?
=== Identified Open Problems ===
# Acceptance and onboarding of scientists, even if we have a model that works in a small setting
# Value attribution:
#* How do you distribute rewards?
#* Opportunity side: new tools looking at ways to provide input to that distribution mechanism
#* How do we connect the two sides?
# How do we test the behavior of a model as it scales?
#* How do we predict the inventive structures or perverse behavior that will arise as it’s adopted for a large number of players?
# Incentive mechanisms for contributing and maintaining a collective knowledge graph
== Day 2: Outcome - Patterns and ID cards for new incentives mechanism design and adoption ==

<code>ToDo: add summary /context for converging on Patterns and Incentive Mechanism Cards</code>

❓[[Question]] What are the patterns for designing a new incentive mechanism system, from inception to adoption by academia?

❓[[Question]] How do we know if a new incentive mechanism or tool is ready for academia?

❓[[Question]] What drives the acceptance and onboarding of scientists?

=== '''💡''' [[Claim]] Patterns ===
''Patterns come from our reflective observations about our hands-on interactions to solve problems in the world. One simple definition is that a pattern is a repeatably applicable solution to a problem that arises in a specific context. What’s the pattern form?''

See the example of the [http://scrumbook.org/ Scrum Patterns] book that used "A pattern language: Towns, buildings, construction." book as reference

* Common building blocks of mechanism design:
** Problem
** Frequent approaches or solution
** How to test / quantify?

Any people that designs new mechanisms

<code>ToDo: summarise the idea better</code>

=== '''💡''' [[Claim]] '''ID Cards for new incentive mechanisms''' ===
''Serve to disclose information about a new mechanism design. What would be the sections of a model card for a new incentive mechanism? Who proposed it, assumptions made, type of incentivized behavior, riks and perverse behavior, evaluation, theoretical support…''

<code>ToDo: copy the 1st draft of Mechanism Cards from:</code> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g1V4WKKmIaEajC9AW9fdbqOnTd7joaasc-AjFDYNC5o/edit#heading=h.pjvcgnypdp3a

=== '''💡''' [[Claim]] '''Wiki of incentive mechanisms:''' ===

* Create an “incentive mechanism card”, a structure on the wiki

* imagine we have a wiki of all incentives ever designed, what would be the “mandatory” sections?
* Convert one of the examples in the chat to that structure

Both '''Patterns''' and '''Incentive Mechanism Cards''' can be converted to wiki structures. These resources are complementary in the sense that Patterns can be small cards that we consult when designing a new mechanism, while ID cards would be unique identifiers of new mechanisms (they can

=== Future Directions: ===

* Create a Wiki ''Structure for Incentive Mechanism Card''
* Create and fill wiki pages for some examples of Incentive Mechanisms
* Idea: invite designers to create ''Patterns for Mechanism Design''

== Examples of Incentive Mechanisms ==
<code>ToDo: copy from messages on Discord in response to</code> https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1041005559954022471/1041061650977009704

<nowiki>#</nowiki>incentive-mechanisms under #general channel
== Bibliography & Resources ==

* Other examples of pattern libraries: https://decentpatterns.xyz/library/

===== Incentive Mechanisms =====

* https://rescognito.com/
* https://credit.niso.org/
* https://anagora.org
* [https://sourcecred.io/ SourceCred]
* Golden - [https://docs.golden.xyz/protocol/how-to-get-involved/reward-function-development Reward function development]
* [https://protocol.ai/blog/hypercert-new-primitive/ HyperCerts]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1soPQ31ZHkQ Impact Evaluators]

===== Papers =====

* [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7046208/ The views, perspectives, and experiences of academic researchers with data sharing and reuse: A meta-synthesis] [Paper]
* [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8808319/ Incentivising research data sharing: a scoping review] [Paper]
* [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.04.25.489391v1.full.pdf Community review: a robust and scalable selection system for resource allocation within open science and innovation communities] by Just One Giant Lab [Paper]
* [https://scienceplusplus.org/metascience/ An Engine of Improvement for the Social Processes of Science] [Paper] by Nielsen and Qiu

Social Systems

2022-11-13T16:16:30Z

Talk:Social Systems

2022-11-12T16:02:12Z

Silvianetobessa:

==Open Notes==
Martin
* Reward contributions and how they affect behavior
* Collect few opinions on how the rewarding can be done, other examples and what worked or didn't work

Angelina:
* Questions about adoption
* Regulations (for example, in USA there's data open or they don't receive money anymore), in EU there's a proposal to evaluate researchers using diff metrics, such as openness

Sílvia
* old incentives, what are the ones in place besides reputation?
* What should we keep in mind when creating

Angelina
* replacing the old system would be detrimental to the adoption
* transfer their merits to the new system
* progressive adoption of new metrics in behavior that accommodates certain

Rafie
* metrics are used to "judge" researchers to allocate grants
* democratically incentives, but existing structures are not democratically enough

* Most of the incentives are monetary (there are social)
* researchers are not in a position to decide; they're put in the system
* funders can probably change the infrastructure and regulations

'''Q: stakeholders?'''
* Researchers
* grant funders
* publishing agencies
* Other: industry, taxpayers

'''Q - change coming from which stakeholders?'''
* Biggest US and European
* smaller foundations, not supper novel ideas, a lot of outliers in Web3
* researcher will move to web3 in 10 to 20
* Stepwise approach, led by biggest funder

*alternative view*: demonstrate the reality of sth, Web3 and Desci - opportunity to demonstrate structures and mechanisms working in a small scale, and showcasing to onboard larger organizations
* start small and demonstrate value

'''Push for the adoption of new systems:'''
* works but not optimal: some systems work great on a small scale, but scale to promote less nice behaviour
* Readiness of academia?
* otoh, early adopters don't need to be big

Nouran:
*HCI community: the driving force is actually the academics
* Tool building perspective: challenges?
* Reputation & interactions in online space: how can we build better tools to help users navigate these spaces without being afraid of their reputation

Martin Q - if we create spaces to allow researchers to come together away from their high reputation game, how do they tap into research initiatives and new funders and funding mechanisms?

Open Questions - validate assumptions for the system that should work on a bigger scale?
* how do we determine the systems that will work on a big scale without testing them on a large scale?
* Valerii shares his company approach: small-scale test, update the pre-existing model + ar

Open Questions?
''' spec out different funding/incentive models for sustaining the work of synthesis '''
'''developing incentive mechanisms for contributions to understanding the status of the knowledge frontier'''
'''incentive mechanisms for contributing and maintaining living lit reviews in both domains'''

Talk:Social Systems

2022-11-12T15:54:15Z

Silvianetobessa:

==Open Notes==
Martin
* Reward contributions and how they affect behavior
* Collect few opinions on how the rewarding can be done, other examples and what worked or didn't work

Angelina:
* Questions about adoption
* Regulations (for example, in USA there's data open or they don't receive money anymore), in EU there's a proposal to evaluate researchers using diff metrics, such as openness

Sílvia
* old incentives, what are the ones in place besides reputation?
* What should we keep in mind when creating

Angelina
* replacing the old system would be detrimental to the adoption
* transfer their merits to the new system
* progressive adoption of new metrics in behavior that accommodates certain

Rafie
* metrics are used to "judge" researchers to allocate grants
* democratically incentives, but existing structures are not democratically enough

* Most of the incentives are monetary (there are social)
* researchers are not in a position to decide; they're put in the system
* funders can probably change the infrastructure and regulations

'''Q: stakeholders?'''
* Researchers
* grant funders
* publishing agencies
* Other: industry, taxpayers

'''Q - change coming from which stakeholders?'''
* Biggest US and European
* smaller foundations, not supper novel ideas, a lot of outliers in Web3
* researcher will move to web3 in 10 to 20
* Stepwise approach, led by biggest funder

*alternative view*: demonstrate the reality of sth, Web3 and Desci - opportunity to demonstrate structures and mechanisms working in a small scale, and showcasing to onboard larger organizations
* start small and demonstrate value

'''Push for the adoption of new systems:'''
* works but not optimal: some systems work great on a small scale, but scale to promote less nice behaviour
* Readiness of academia?
* otoh, early adopters don't need to be big

Nouran:
*HCI community: the driving force is actually the academics
* Tool building perspective: challenges?
* Reputation & interactions in online space: how can we build better tools to help users navigate these spaces without being afraid of their reputation

Martin Q - if we create spaces to allow researchers to come together away from their high reputation game, how do they tap into research initiatives and new funders and funding mechanisms?

Open Questions?
**developing incentive mechanisms for contributions to understanding the status of the knowledge frontier**
**incentive mechanisms for contributing and maintaining living lit reviews in both domains**.

Talk:Social Systems

2022-11-12T15:37:04Z

Silvianetobessa:

Talk:Social Systems

2022-11-12T15:29:54Z

Silvianetobessa:

Talk:Social Systems

2022-11-12T15:23:07Z

Silvianetobessa:

* Reward contributions and how they affect behavior
* Collect few opinions on how the rewarding can be done, other examples and what worked or didn't work

Talk:Social Systems

2022-11-12T15:21:53Z

Silvianetobessa: Created page with "Testing"

Testing

Sílvia Bessa

2022-11-12T14:46:34Z

Silvianetobessa:

Research Program Manager in the Network Research team at Protocol Labs, where she designs new mechanisms to incentivize and accelerate research to build public goods.{{Participant
|Timezone=WET (GMT+00:00/GMT+01:00)
|Affiliation=Protocol.ai
|Interests=Value Attribution, Decentralization, Incentive systems, Coordination
|Group=Social Systems
|Discord Handle=Sílvia Bessa#1869
|Github=silvianetobessa
}}
{{Workshop Submission
|Frame=Practitioner, Tool-builder
}}

Social Systems

2022-11-12T11:56:56Z

Silvianetobessa: /* Relevant Messages */

Social Systems

2022-11-12T11:42:46Z

Silvianetobessa:

Discord Messages

2022-11-12T11:19:06Z

Silvianetobessa: /* 22-11-12 */

== 22-10-16 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-10-17 00:57:56
|Channel=testing-wikibot
|Text=Once again i am talking about my [[Test Topic]] that's a part of my [[Test Project]] and i want to see some links in the reply
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1029573464320917635/1031370447457108038
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-10-17 01:10:41
|Channel=testing-wikibot
|Text=Now hopefully without the uncaught exceptions for [[Test Topic]]
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1029573464320917635/1031373655944474645
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-10-17 01:15:09
|Channel=testing-wikibot
|Text=Now I am going to link a message into a specific section in my [[Test Topic#New Section]] and also see if we propagate that through to the wikilinks in [[Test Project]]
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1029573464320917635/1031374778415718410
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-10-17 01:15:09
|Channel=testing-wikibot
|Text=Now I am going to link a message into a specific section in my [[Test Topic#New Section]] and also see if we propagate that through to the wikilinks in [[Test Project]]
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1029573464320917635/1031374778415718410
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-10-17 01:38:21
|Channel=testing-wikibot
|Text=i'll leave the bot running for a lil bit but yeah it's just running on my laptop for now, will move it over to the linode running the wiki when i go to switch the url. made a page to document the [[WikiBot#Status Updates]]
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1029573464320917635/1031380616605868102
}}

== 22-10-16 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-10-17 00:57:56
|Channel=testing-wikibot
|Text=Once again i am talking about my [[Test Topic]] that's a part of my [[Test Project]] and i want to see some links in the reply
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1029573464320917635/1031370447457108038
}}

== 22-10-31 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-10-31 23:55:22
|Channel=testing-wikibot
|Text=[[Testing Wikibot]]
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1029573464320917635/1036790519319236698
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-01 00:03:06
|Channel=wikibot
|Text=I would suggest turning [[Discord#Notifications]] off for this channel. on mobile click the person looking icon in the top right and then the notification options are near the top. on desktop there should be a bell-looking icon along the top row of icons
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1036778158122344448/1036792464972992532
}}

== 22-11-01 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-01 02:02:02
|Channel=testing-wikibot
|Text=[[Testing Wikibot]]
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1029573464320917635/1036822397745119262
}}

== 22-11-02 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-02 07:43:01
|Channel=testing-wikibot
|Text=[[Testing Wikibot]]
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1029573464320917635/1037270597362798622
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-02 07:43:07
|Channel=testing-wikibot
|Text=[[Testing Wikibot2]]
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1029573464320917635/1037270620616015922
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-02 08:12:57
|Channel=fedi
|Text=Excuse me let me be a good role model on continuous archiving. One of the reasons I am excited about academics adopting [[Mastodon]] is because [[ActivityPub]] is built on [[Linked Data]], which i think inspires the possibility for fundamentally new modes of scholarly communication. I have written about this in the past ([[Has DOI::10.48550/arXiv.2209.07493]], but will do my best to decenter my own ideas except for when I am using them as a demonstration for others as part of a demonstration of using the technology developed for the workshop
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1037261659368067072/1037278126918619188
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-02 08:14:45
|Channel=wikibot
|Text=omg lmao [[WikiBot#TODO]] Don't make a separate page using semantic wikilinks lol
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1036778158122344448/1037278580968800276
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-02 08:17:07
|Channel=fedi
|Text=Then i just made a page to link to the pages. There's not really a well defined way to do meta-categorization like that in-medium as far as I'm aware, but am happy to receive [[WikiBot#Feature Requests]] about it
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1037261659368067072/1037279178883616798
}}{{Message
|Author=joelchan86
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/322545403876868096/6dd171845a7a4e30603d98ae510c77b8.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-02 12:27:51
|Channel=table-2
|Text=Konrad, are you familiar with [[Chemical Markup Language]] (CML)? I stumbled across it on Twitter a few weeks ago via discussions about open publishing, and was surprised at the longevity of the project. I don’t love XML, but it seems to have gained some traction in its day, though I am not sure how active it is these days. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Markup_Language
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1033091746139230238/1037342276520783943
}}

== 22-11-03 ==

{{Message
|Author=joelchan86
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/322545403876868096/6dd171845a7a4e30603d98ae510c77b8.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-03 02:56:36
|Channel=table-2
|Text=ah, that is both informative and sad to hear. i think ahead of its time is a reasonable diagnosis.

[[ScholOnto]] I think was also ahead of its time: had a working prototype integration into a Word processor for directly authoring discourse-graph like things while drafting a manuscript (described here: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/int.20188)
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1033091746139230238/1037560902800658514
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-03 11:27:24
|Channel=off-topic
|Text=this is almost exactly the idea with the [[WikiBot]] that pushes to a [[Semantic Wiki]], and good to have a name in [[Gradual Enrichment]]. looking forward to digging though the references and finishing that piece^ tomorrow. (and finishing the n-back linking syntax so I can just directly include the piece in the annotation that is this message). thanks for sharing 🙂
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1035691728356790322/1037689452157481071
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-03 22:51:30
|Channel=In terms of overlap with my own
|Text=[[Project Ideas#Linked Data Publishing On Activitypub]]

ooh I'm very interested in this. so are you thinking a [[Twitter#Bridge]] -> [[ActivityPub#Bridge]] where one could use markup within the twitter post to declare [[Linked Data#Markup Syntax]] and then post to AP? I have thought about this kind of thing before, like using a bot command syntax to declare prefixes by doing something like
```
@ bot prefix
foaf: https:// (ontology URL)
```
or
```
@ bot alias
term: foaf.LongerNameForTerm
```
so that one could do maybe a semantic wikilink like `[ [term::value] ]` either within the tweet or as a reply to it (so the tweet itself doesn't become cluttered/it can become organized post -hoc?).

I've also thought about a bridge (I called [[Threadodo]] ) that implements that kind of command syntax to be able to directly archive threads to [[Zenodo]] along with structured information about the author, but this seems more interesting.

I can help try and clear some of the groundwork out of the way to make it easier for you and other interested participants to experiment. I have asked around fedi a bunch for a very minimal AP server implementation, and I could try and find one (or we could try and prototype one) if you want to experiment with that :), and I can also document and show you a tweepy-based bot that has an extensible command/parsing system too
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1037786518800039978/1037861609885925467
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-03 23:11:44
|Channel=table-3
|Text=hello Matthew! very curious about this. As someone not familiar with materials science, I'm curious if you could say more about what [[OPTIMADE]] does in this case? Is the idea that the zenodo plugin parses some paper, and then sends it to other listening clients that the parsed data comes from the paper? is it a vocabulary, or communication protocol, or both? and what kind of information would it be parsing/do materials scientists want to be able to analyze in an automated way? sorry if I am being dense, just curious because I've always admired materials but have had very little exposure.
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1033091597635694694/1037866701326385284
}}

== 22-11-04 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-04 15:26:31
|Channel=table-1
|Text=in the spirit of cultivating our garden: [[Reading List]] https://hapgood.us/2015/10/17/the-garden-and-the-stream-a-technopastoral/amp/
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1033091723389317160/1038112016038101062
}}{{Message
|Author=Konrad Hinsen
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/499904513038090240/343ae17c322fa09b3260f95e58bc4f29.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-04 16:21:19
|Channel=Wikibot
|Text=Nice idea, that [[Wikibot]]! Do I understand correctly that it grabs all messages that contain a page name in double brackets, and adds them to the Wiki page with that name? (this message being as much a test as a question of course)
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1038112016038101062/1038125804032368663
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-04 21:01:30
|Channel=Wikibot
|Text=the idea is exactly to merge the [[Garden and Stream]] we have here, or as olde wiki culture called it, [[DocumentMode and ThreadMode]] in a process of [[Gradual Enrichment]]
http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/DocumentMode
http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/ThreadMode
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1038112016038101062/1038196314409803826
}}

== 22-11-05 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-05 01:23:44
|Channel=mod-requests
|Text=[[Wiki#Organization]]
As we get towards proposing projects and organizing ideas, I've added a set of pages for the different concepts that y'all indicated either here or in your applications: https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Concepts

Each page should give a list of participants that have a `Interested In` property on their participant page (or you can declare interest on the page using the template (see example at https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Template:Concept ) as another way of finding people with similar interests. Feel free to add additional interests from your own page and add new pages by using the `{{Concept}}` template on any new page. The pages are all stubs at the moment, but I have made links between related concepts/subconcepts/etc. These will also help us catch any wikilinks made from within the discord 🙂
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1032530251944833054/1038262308935319574
}}

== 22-11-07 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-07 01:11:33
|Channel=black-boxes
|Text=Hello Pooja and welcome 🙂 I certainly share your concerns here, and would love to read any writing or work you've done on the topic! I'm curious if you had any initial inklings of [[Discovery]] systems that go beyond the [[Search#Black Box Model]] ? I have my own ideas but as you say, everyone has a unique standpoint and experience that structures their ideas so I would love to hear yours!
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1038594946791387276/1038984020047962212
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-07 01:33:13
|Channel=general-brainstorming
|Text=For everyone that is embarking on a project, how about setting up a page under [[Projects]] where we can start organizing people that are interested in them, and setting up any prerequisite infra/tools so we don't have to be struggling with stuff like provisioning servers and getting permissions setup during our limited time this weekend 🙂
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1034992937391632444/1038989470290153472
}}

== 22-11-08 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-08 23:32:39
|Channel=linked-data-activitypub
|Text=To add to the [[Reading List#Linked Data]] on [[Linked Data]], [[Standards]], and [[Collaboration]]: a piece from one of the authors of [[ActivityPub]] on the merger of the distributed messaging and linked data communities that I think puts into context what a massive achievement AP was
http://dustycloud.org/blog/on-standards-divisions-collaboration/
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1038983225348993184/1039683903864189020
}}

== 22-11-09 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-09 23:25:43
|Channel=SEPIO + ActivityStreams via JSON-LD
|Text=Haven't finished n-back thread capture yet but this rocks and let's keep track of it on the wiki. Scroll up in this thread for [[SEPIO]] + [[ActivityStreams]]/[[ActivityPub]] + [[JSON-LD]]. On a train now and having to work on some other stuff but this is making me unreasonably excited to check out later
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040042059916120094/1040044550611284018
}}

== 22-11-10 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 00:15:39
|Channel=mod-requests
|Text=Reminder as the conversations start thickening (which has been great to read, looking forward to jumping in more later when I have a few minutes) and thus become a bit harder to keep track of that you should feel free to make liberal use of [[Wikilinks]] in your posts to archive them in the wiki and make them more discoverable by people outside of your table/project. (For example this message will appear here https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Wikilinks ). This would be especially useful because it looks like some folks are interested in doing some <#1038988750677606432> on the wiki!
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1032530251944833054/1040057112891494451
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 08:58:52
|Channel=discourse-modeling
|Text=I am about to go to bed but personally I favor the model of the federated wiki, that the same "term" or page title in the case of the wiki has many possible realizations, and what's useful is their multiplicity. I think everything2 was an early model of this, but basically it cuts to the core of the history of early wikis, to the initial fork of ward's wiki into meatball. the singularity of meaning as implied by Wikipedia is imo an artifact of wikis having been adopted by encyclopedists, with all the diderot-like enlightenment-era philosophy that entails. this seems exceptionally apt today and yesterday given Aaron Swartz telling of that history , particularly his "[[Who Writes Wikipedia?]]" Everyone can contribute in a linked context, and that's what the synthesis of wikilike thinking, linked data, and distributed messaging gives us :). I write about this idea more completely here: https://jon-e.net/infrastructure/#the-wiki-way
after my take on the critical/ethical need for forking in information systems as given by the case study of NIH's biomedical translator (link to most relevant part in the middle of the argument, the justification and motivation precedes it): https://jon-e.net/infrastructure/#problematizing-the-need-for-a-system-intended-to-link-all-or-eve
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1038988750677606432/1040188785499054100
}}{{Message
|Author=joelchan86
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/322545403876868096/6dd171845a7a4e30603d98ae510c77b8.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 15:51:29
|Channel=discourse graphs
|Text=the idea [[DiscourseGraphs]] is rooted in a bunch of models like [[SEPIO]] (h/t <@602622661125996545>) and [[ScholOnto]] that have been around for various amounts of time, though not yet with (to my knowledge) serious widespread adoption.
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040214388554084372/1040292623891582996
}}{{Message
|Author=joelchan86
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/322545403876868096/6dd171845a7a4e30603d98ae510c77b8.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 15:55:39
|Channel=discourse graphs
|Text=we think the problem now is user-friendly tools and workfows that can create discourse graph structures, and have seen some exciting progress across a bunch of new user-facing "personal wikis". but bridging from personal to communal is still a challenge, partially bc of tooling.

this is why i'm excited about the [[Discourse Modeling]] idea, which i sort of understand as a way to try to instantiate something like [[Discourse Graphs]] into a wiki (bc wikis have a lot more in-built affordances for collaboration, such as edit histories, talk pages, etc.), which may hopefully lead to a lower barrier to entry for collaborative discourse graphing.

a high hope is that we can develop a process that is easy enough to understand and implement that can then be applied to discourse graphing the IPCC or similarly large body of research on a focused, contentious, interdisciplinary topic.

other examples include:
- effects of masks on community transmission (can't do decisive RCTs, need to synthesize)
- effects of social media on political (dys)function: (existing crowdsourced lit review here, in traditional narrative form: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vVAtMCQnz8WVxtSNQev_e1cGmY9rnY96ecYuAj6C548/edit#)
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040214388554084372/1040293673851691059
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 20:40:46
|Channel=Thanks sneakers the rat2880 Your site is
|Text=I don't know of any either! The closest I know of is ward's [[Fedwiki]]: but i plan on making one (probably more related to <#1038983225348993184> than this channel, which i am trying hard not to derail lol)
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040360259413348432/1040365424338026539
}}{{Message
|Author=Konrad Hinsen
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/499904513038090240/343ae17c322fa09b3260f95e58bc4f29.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 20:45:36
|Channel=Thanks sneakers the rat2880 Your site is
|Text=Looking forward to your work in this space! I do know about [[Fedwiki]] but only as a spectator. I tried to convince a few colleagues to set up a network of Fedwikis in our research domain, but nobody was keen on becoming a sysadmin to run their own Wiki instance.
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040360259413348432/1040366642665902142
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 20:58:52
|Channel=Thanks sneakers the rat2880 Your site is
|Text=yes [[anagora]] does have a rough kind of federation! it's a very very permissive model which I love, markdown and plaintext with wikilinks, a lot of the wikis that it federates with are just git repositories of .md files 🙂
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040360259413348432/1040369980648198155
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 21:01:50
|Channel=anagora
|Text=Maybe [[Synthesis Infrastructures 2022]] or something? but we haven't made one yet no lol
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040362284125524008/1040370727456604261
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 21:38:12
|Channel=semantic-climate
|Text=another group ( <#1038988750677606432> ) will i believe be analyzing the semantic information on the wiki ( https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Main_Page ), and you can archive the text of any message onto a wiki page by using [[Wikilinks]]: ( so eg. this message will go to https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Wikilinks )
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040057721044598788/1040379879843180544
}}{{Message
|Author=joelchan86
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/322545403876868096/6dd171845a7a4e30603d98ae510c77b8.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-10 21:38:25
|Channel=discourse graphs
|Text=in human-computer interaction we have a similar problem of trying to think about and synthesize across many genres of contributions/research. one map (adapted for information studies) breaks things out into "empirical" contributions (these most often follow the standard intro/methods/results/discussion format), "conceptual" contributions (which are often more amorphous theory papers), and "constructive" contributions (making a new system/method)

from here: HCI Research as Problem-Solving | Proceedings of the 2016 CHI Conference on Human Factors in Computing Systems
https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/2858036.2858283

cc [[Reading List]]
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040214388554084372/1040379933115043912
}}

== 22-11-11 ==

{{Message
|Author=Konrad Hinsen
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/499904513038090240/343ae17c322fa09b3260f95e58bc4f29.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-11 05:26:42
|Channel=WikiFunctions
|Text=That said, the more abstract idea of defining a data model plus execution semantics that any programming language can plug into looks very promising. That aspect of WikiLambda was in fact one of my inspirations for developing [[Digital Scientific Notations]].
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040456437022859324/1040497782882062336
}}{{Message
|Author=Konrad Hinsen
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/499904513038090240/343ae17c322fa09b3260f95e58bc4f29.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-11 05:45:14
|Channel=Thanks sneakers the rat2880 Your site is
|Text=I'll try to turn this thread into [[Project Ideas#Federated knowledge synthesis]]: identify protocols, data models, tools, practices, etc. that can support the process of synthesizing and formalizing scientific knowledge, then build on these ingredients. One dimension is going from narratives via discourse graphs to knowledge graphs. Another dimension is going from conceptual ideas to formal systems.
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040360259413348432/1040502446943899668
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-11 06:50:07
|Channel=Thanks sneakers the rat2880 Your site is
|Text=we're in the process of consolidating the ideas into group pages, so far the group pages are incomplete, but tomorrow (I'm on Pacific time, US) will work on that and take whatever ya write and move it over there 🙂 <@322545403876868096> got this started here: https://synthesis-infrastructures.wiki/Workshop_Working_Groups and then we'll split those up into pages in [[:Category:Group]]
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040360259413348432/1040518772064260096
}}{{Message
|Author=joelchan86
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/322545403876868096/6dd171845a7a4e30603d98ae510c77b8.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-11 14:05:36
|Channel=what is obsidian-logseq-roam
|Text=I think of all of these tools as "personal hypertext notebooks" - basically taking what is possible in wikis (organizing by means of linking, hypertext) and lowering the barrier to entry (no need to spin up a server, can just download an app and go).

The common thread across these notebooks then is allowing for organizing and exploring by means of bidirectional hyperlinks between "notes":
- In [[Obsidian]] each linkable note is a markdown file and can be as short or long as you like
- in [[Logseq]]/[[Roam]] and other outliner-style notebooks, you can link "pages", and also individual bullets in the outlines on each page.

In this way, the core functionality of these tools is similar to a wiki, but they do leave out a lot of the collaborative functionality that makes wikis work well (granular versioning and edit histories, talk pages, etc.). So for folks like <@305044217393053697> who are comfortable with wikis already, they add marginal value IMO.

Their technical predecessors in the "personal (vs. collaborative) wiki" space include [[TiddlyWiki]] and [[emacs org-mode]] (and inherit their technical extensibility: many users create their own extensions of the notebooks' functionality. an example is the [[Roam Discourse Graph extension]] that <@824740026575355906> is using).

These tools also tend to trace their idea lineage back to vannevar bush's [[Memex]] and ted nelson's [[Xanadu]].
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040600256485797889/1040628364735680572
}}{{Message
|Author=joelchan86
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/322545403876868096/6dd171845a7a4e30603d98ae510c77b8.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-11 14:08:30
|Channel=what is obsidian-logseq-roam
|Text=These tools are still not entirely mainstream compared to tools like [[Notion]], which is related to your experience trying to learn more about the tools - so they tend to have a steep learning curve!

IMO the best way to get a feel for what they are is to see some examples/videos.

I like this video for an overview of [[Logseq]]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtRozP8hfEY&t=6s

I describe [[Roam]] and the [[Roam Discourse Graph extension]] in this portion of a talk I recently gave: https://youtu.be/jH-QF7rVSeo?t=1417
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040600256485797889/1040629097929375784
}}{{Message
|Author=joelchan86
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/322545403876868096/6dd171845a7a4e30603d98ae510c77b8.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-11 19:01:10
|Channel=what is obsidian-logseq-roam
|Text=i agree it's not universal! my feeling is that [[Claim]]: a statement (claim or evidence) might be the more universal element:
- empirical work also consists of statements about the world (this is less controversial)
- design/technological innovation rests in part on claims about a) what is needed in the world, what is hard to do, constraints, and b) what is needed to succeed: examples here: https://deepscienceventures.com/content/the-outcomes-graph-2 (h/t <@559775193242009610>)
- theories often consist of systems of core claims (e.g., in models like what <@824740026575355906> and <@734802666441408532> are working with, where we can think of the claims as subgraphs of the overall knowledge graph)

see, e.g., [[Evidence]] from this review of models of scientific knowledge https://publish.obsidian.md/joelchan-notes/discourse-graph/evidence/EVD+-+Four+positivist+epistemological+models+from+philosophy+of+science%2C+including+Popper%2C+emphasiz...+statements+as+a+core+component+of+scientific+knowledge+-+%40harsDesigningScientificKnowledge2001

and [[Evidence]] convergence/contrasts across users of the [[Roam Discourse Graph extension]] in terms of building blocks: common thread across all was Evidence
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040600256485797889/1040702747659489391
}}{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-11 23:05:02
|Channel=graphdb
|Text=super glad to hear that the endpoint worked btw, i've never used SPARQL and am more used to just making my own data models that generate API queries & parse etc. so I would love to see what you've been doing and how you've been using it - I'll make a [[SPARQL]] page linked off the wiki page that gives the URL and maybe we can embed sample queries and etc. there
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1040116311952470026/1040764119294410773
}}

== 22-11-12 ==

{{Message
|Author=sneakers-the-rat
|Avatar=https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/305044217393053697/2970b22bd769d0cd0ee1de79be500e85.png?size=1024
|Date Sent=22-11-12 03:30:30
|Channel=discourse-modeling
|Text=I am definitely on team "scruffy" per Lindsay Poirier's typology (BTW "[[A Turn for the Scruffy]]" should be on the collective [[Reading List]] for anyone who hasn't come across it) and so yes definitely "Own-terminology" iterating into something shared, part of why i love the semwiki model of building them. On the other end of things for tomorrow - Is there any particular existing ontology/schema/etc. anyone in this group would like to have imported into the wiki for discourse modeling?
|Link=https://discord.com/channels/1029514961782849607/1038988750677606432/1040830926629896212
}}

Social Systems

2022-11-12T11:16:35Z

Silvianetobessa: /* Relevant Messages */

Social Systems

2022-11-12T11:14:29Z

Silvianetobessa: /* Relevant Messages */

2022-11-12T09:27:13Z

Silvianetobessa:

{{Participant
|Timezone=WET (GMT+00:00/GMT+01:00)
|Discord Handle=Sílvia Bessa#1869
}}
{{Workshop Submission}}